Elysium (Hyperliquid L2) 主网上线在即，可以听下创始人 @0xOmnia 的最新播客【附��

Transcript

Hyperliquid is an extremely

0:01

extremely Darwinian ecosystem. It is

0:03

survival of the fittest

0:05

The market doesn't particularly need another L2

0:07

but it would be very intellectually lazy to

0:10

look at Liseum as

0:11

again, just another L2. And I would agree

0:13

if it wasn't built on Hyperliquid

0:14

if it was built on Ethereum

0:15

I'd be like

0:15

what the fuck are we doing here?

0:16

Paying a thousand dollars for gas made absolutely

0:18

no fucking sense

0:30

Welcome to

0:31

a new episode of the Insilico Terminal podcast

0:36

And today we have

0:36

I guess

0:37

a

0:37

special episode because today we have the first ever repeat guest

0:42

which might be, More common occurrence in

0:45

in the future, but this is the first time

0:47

and it hasn't been that long since we've

0:48

been here the last time

0:51

but

0:52

I think something substantial has changed that we

0:54

didn't cover the last time you were on here

0:57

and, I am very interested to talk about that

1:00

because I feel like

1:01

we're kind of in a bear market right now

1:04

I mean, overall, I, I, I would say at least

1:07

and I remember the last bear market in

1:09

in, 2023 that we had stuff like

1:13

Frentech and

1:14

and

1:15

Stuff that like pops up and like dies

1:17

down again and whatever and

1:19

then pump fun

1:20

I guess was like the big thing that

1:21

appeared and got like huge and

1:24

now this this time we had

1:25

I guess

1:26

paper trade for for like

1:28

a couple of weeks and that already died

1:29

down but

1:31

I think you're building something that is very

1:33

to me at least interesting that could be

1:35

like something that like kickstarts

1:37

the new cycle a little bit that

1:39

could be a

1:40

a

1:41

a name or or something important for for

1:43

the new

1:45

future of crypto so I am

1:48

also a bag holder just for like

1:51

this

1:52

for a disclaimer

1:53

so I'm also like doing some bag work

1:55

here now but I'm actually just interested in

1:57

in what is Elysium and

2:00

yeah maybe you can just give me the

2:02

the the pitch version Yeah

2:05

first of all, thanks for having me back on

2:06

I mean

2:06

I didn't know it was the first ever repeat guest

2:09

so that's obviously, you know

2:11

it's an honor, so I appreciate that

2:14

Yeah, stoked to talk Elysium

2:16

I mean, it's dominated No

2:18

my mind and the mind of

2:19

our team for like a very long time

2:22

But yeah, so in short, Elysium is in L2

2:27

built entirely on top of Hyperliquid

2:30

It is built on top of the Arbitrum

2:32

platform stack. So you can think of

2:35

I guess

2:36

architecturally very similar in that regard to Robinhood

2:39

chain

2:40

We did work with Conduit to bring this

2:41

to life. So we do use their G2 sequencer

2:44

which does enable several multiples

2:47

more TPS

2:48

than something like a Robinhood chain as well

2:51

And then also, you know

2:53

being built on the Arbitrum stack does allow

2:55

us to kind of further scale

2:56

the offering in the future and

2:58

make it even faster and lower latency

3:00

So yeah, that is the super

3:02

super high level nutshell of what Elysium is

3:07

So me personally, I don't, do too much stuff on

3:11

on chains, on, on anything because

3:14

it's, it's often, I don't know

3:16

it just doesn't interest me like that much

3:17

I'm more of like a trading kind of

3:19

person. But

3:20

so like the first question that I ask me is why

3:23

why do we need another chain?

3:25

What, what is this chain there for?

3:28

So it's a super fair question because this

3:30

is what we ask ourselves a lot

3:32

and I think I've been quite

3:35

publicly bearish, you know

3:37

L2s for a very long time

3:40

my personal view is that outside of like the arbitrum

3:45

and optimism entrance in 2025

3:49

2021, so like five years ago

3:51

there hasn't really been much development or

3:55

general value added there in

3:57

in the slightest

3:59

at that time it was like very needed

4:00

right? Because You had Ethereum and like this last

4:04

you know, two years, if you will, since DeFi summer

4:07

where there was this massive rush

4:10

of Ethereum DeFi and all this experimentation that was happening

4:12

which was incredible

4:15

And I remember vividly

4:18

you know, paying like absolutely ridiculous amounts for gas

4:21

right? Like $1,000 for an approval and

4:24

you know, a few thousand dollars for a single

4:26

you know, contract call, which could have been complex or

4:29

you know, even simple. So anyway

4:31

the point being, that was very needed at the time

4:34

right? Like when Arbitrum was there

4:36

it changed the game

4:40

It made cheap fees and like fast transactions

4:43

like table stakes over the next like couple

4:44

of years

4:45

And it's been that way for a long time

4:46

right? Like, you know

4:48

base

4:49

came to market and kind of like

4:51

showed what would

4:52

be possible outside of like BSC

4:54

if a big company

4:56

or centralized exchange more specifically came and pushed

4:58

its own on-chain ecosystem. And

5:00

you know, here we are, right?

5:01

Where again, it's, it's complete table stakes

5:04

So

5:06

yeah, again

5:07

back to the question of like why we need another L2

5:09

like the market doesn't particularly need another L2

5:13

but what

5:15

really

5:15

kind of set the tone here was

5:17

what was happening on Hyperliquid

5:19

where, you know

5:20

Hyperliquid has been the undisputed

5:22

and unequivocal winner of perps

5:25

And in 2024, you know, when HyperEVM was announced

5:30

Our view

5:31

by the end of that summer was that

5:32

we were going to build kinetic and then

5:34

you know, we proceeded to do that

5:35

And when HyperEVM went live in February of 2025

5:38

which again, like as, you know, everyone knows the Hyperliquid team

5:40

right? They don't say what's

5:41

what's going on. So

5:42

you know, we were waiting, we had audited the protocol for

5:44

for, you know, quite some time

5:47

And even when we went live

5:49

well, HyperEVM went live in February

5:51

you know

5:51

kinetic didn't go live for another five months

5:53

because we needed one particular technical dependency that

5:58

again

5:58

went

5:59

from February to about July to go live

6:02

And at that point

6:03

that's when we put out a whole like

6:04

seven or eight day notice

6:05

And then, you know, kinetic finally went live

6:08

And the reason for that at the time was it

6:10

it required this fully

6:13

I guess you could say

6:14

you know

6:14

Hyperliquid dependency that

6:16

is called the write precompile or at the time

6:19

you know, L1 write

6:20

And

6:22

This

6:22

essentially allows the protocol on HyperEVM to basically

6:25

talk to Hyperliquid's exchange component slash

6:28

you know, staking module

6:31

To basically like put this in very

6:32

very layman's terms

6:34

you can think of Hyperliquid as like one

6:36

street with two lanes

6:37

right?

6:38

And like you could think of like one lane being HyperCore

6:42

which is the exchange side

6:44

and

6:45

HyperEVM being the general purpose environment where you

6:47

can do all the stuff that

6:48

you know, we do today and

6:50

you know, with Kinetic on the smart contract side and

6:53

you know, many other protocols have deployed

6:55

So DEXs, money markets, leverage token protocols, et cetera, right?

6:59

Like anything and everything that you can do in DeFi

7:02

you should be able to do on HyperEVM

7:05

The Complication, if you will

7:08

is that the way that Hyper-EVM is currently structured

7:11

like kind of baffles a lot of people

7:12

because of

7:14

the kind of dual block architecture that's required

7:16

to compose with Hyperliquid's state

7:18

Again, like I said, right

7:19

it's the same street. It's not two different

7:21

streets. It's all kind of

7:22

you know, on one, you know

7:24

form of ground, if you will

7:26

rather than like separated across totally different highways

7:29

if you will

7:30

So HyperCore and HyperEVM are all one state

7:34

And, you know

7:35

in order for HyperEVM to kind of fit within

7:37

you know, HyperCore block production time

7:40

it seems like they needed to create this

7:41

kind of dual block architecture

7:43

And which, again, is totally understandable

7:46

HyperCore is kind of like the main thing

7:49

right, in their regard. Like logistically

7:52

it doesn't really make sense

7:54

To work on, you know, Hyper-EVM and

7:57

you know, in their view

7:58

at least that's what the

8:00

kind of public thinks

8:03

If it's making, you know, on a good day

8:04

maybe a few million dollars a year

8:06

But again, it is kind of like throttled

8:08

not necessarily on purpose because they just want

8:10

to screw over Hyper-EVM. I don't believe this

8:12

is how they view it

8:13

but there are technical constraints

8:15

right? So HyperCore, on the other hand

8:17

makes, you know, between one and five million dollars a day

8:19

sometimes even more

8:21

So it makes total and complete sense for Hyperliquid

8:23

which is a super small and super focused team

8:25

to just work on that offering

8:27

So this leaves

8:28

a huge gap

8:29

for the general purpose activity that should be taking

8:32

you know

8:32

form on Hyperliquid

8:34

and should be dominated by Hyperliquid

8:36

That's just not happening

8:37

And when we were thinking about this

8:38

you know, a couple of quarters ago

8:40

you know, this is what we ultimately landed on

8:42

And again, like we were very reluctant

8:45

At first, because again, like, why another chain?

8:47

Like

8:48

we knew this is going to be like

8:49

a big point of criticism

8:51

Oh, it's just another L2

8:52

whatever

8:53

But really what Elysium is

8:56

like

8:56

going deeper and like way past like the high level nutshell

8:59

you know, example, is

9:02

is a fully general purpose layer

9:04

that's built to compose with the deepest

9:06

most utilized form of liquidity on chain

9:08

which is Hyperliquid

9:10

Like that is a completely different offering than

9:12

that's ever existed before

9:15

And

9:16

The really cool part is that Elysium

9:17

does solve a lot of these problems that

9:19

developers and users on Hyper-V M do experience

9:23

which are, you know

9:24

huge constraints in terms of the gas limit that the

9:27

that the chain, you know, offers

9:29

and obviously the speed as well

9:30

I believe it's like

9:31

you know

9:31

seven transactions per second at the moment

9:34

so for further context

9:36

Hyper-V M's dual block architecture is

9:38

again, split in two

9:39

There is small blocks

9:41

which produce blocks every one second and have

9:44

a gas limit of three million

9:46

and then big blocks

9:47

which produce a block every minute

9:51

So those have a 10x

9:53

kind of like capacity in terms of gas limit

9:56

which is 30 million gas

9:59

So Elysium changes this by reducing block times to 100 milliseconds

10:03

so about 10 times Faster than

10:08

than small blocks

10:09

and then 600 times roughly faster than big blocks

10:14

if that makes sense

10:14

but with the same capacity as big blocks

10:17

So 30 million gas

10:19

and then, you know, 100 millisecond block time

10:22

So extremely fast and a lot of throughput potential

10:25

And

10:26

yeah, that's the super, super high level, right?

10:28

And the idea is that

10:30

what we're doing at Elysium is effectively building

10:32

our own adaptation of the precompiles that Hyperliquid released

10:35

and enabling even more functionality

10:37

So

10:38

instead of, you know, the current offering

10:41

which basically just allows you to read BBO

10:43

from Hyperliquid directly from the EVM side

10:45

which again

10:46

is already

10:46

a leap and bound ahead of what any

10:48

other general purpose ecosystem can do

10:51

you'll be able to on Elysium not just read BBO

10:53

but also read on top of the BBO

10:55

you'll be able to read order book depth as well

10:57

and even more information

10:58

at some point across all of Hyperliquid's markets

11:01

So what the fuck does this actually mean?

11:03

Like, because we're just talking a bunch of Nerdy shit here

11:06

and like

11:06

how does this actually translate to the end user?

11:09

So

11:10

imagine for a second that

11:13

any ecosystem did not need to rely on You know

11:17

external oracle providers for pricing

11:20

Imagine when you're trading on Robinhood chain

11:22

you can use Robinhood's option pricing for

11:26

like as the RWA oracle

11:28

essentially

11:29

Or if you were trading on BSC

11:31

you didn't need to use

11:33

you know, some other oracle provider

11:34

you would just use Binance's pricing of crypto assets

11:36

which is obviously the most

11:37

you know, it's the gold standard

11:38

right? Outside of hyperliquid. For centralized exchanges

11:42

like you were just using that for pricing

11:44

Like what is possible there

11:45

is you can build really robust DeFi applications

11:47

that leverage this pricing

11:49

you know, day in, day out, to basically offer, you know

11:53

anything you can think of

11:53

right? So

11:54

fully on-chain perps that compose with hyperliquids order

11:57

books

11:58

You can offer fully on-chain options order book

12:02

You can offer

12:03

you know, quite a lot, right?

12:03

Like you can offer tokenized perps as well

12:07

And what that means is like leverage tokens

12:09

essentially

12:09

that do have composability with DeFi protocols like

12:11

AMMs or money markets

12:13

So like you can do quite a lot

12:14

right? Prop AMMs would basically be in

12:17

Because you don't need to basically take

12:20

you know, split your account or equity across the on-chain

12:24

you know

12:24

world where you need to provide liquidity and

12:25

capture swap volume

12:27

And then the rest of your equities on

12:29

centralized exchanges hedging that flow

12:31

You can just do it all on-chain

12:32

right? So you're

12:33

you're capturing

12:34

swap volume on Elysium and then you're hedging

12:36

on HyperCore. Like this is

12:37

this is the best. Could you explain

12:40

briefly what a prop AMM is?

12:43

So in short, a prop AMM is kind of like

12:49

I'm thinking of like the best way to

12:50

explain this in most simple terms

12:52

but they're kind of the

12:55

the DEXs where liquidity is being routed and

12:57

most people don't even know

12:58

right? So it's not your typical Uniswap or

13:02

you know, kind of

13:03

aggregator type product, essentially

13:06

It's a pool of like

13:07

what tends to be much

13:08

more shallow liquidity

13:10

than what you're seeing on the surface

13:12

That is basically just hyper-optimized to give you

13:14

the best possible fill on chain

13:16

And these guys will then hedge that risk

13:19

you know, instead of capturing like a larger spread between like

13:22

you know, one or three basis points or more

13:25

they will basically offer as close to zero

13:27

possible spread and then just hedge that flow

13:30

on centralized exchanges or wherever they want

13:32

Maybe some do it on Hyperliquid already or

13:34

other Perp DEXs

13:36

But that's basically the very

13:38

very high level of what a prop AMM

13:40

is

13:41

And there's even cool products like Metric who have built

13:43

you know

13:44

infrastructure for prop AMMs to deploy on top of as well

13:47

to my understanding. So yeah

13:50

these became mostly popular initially on Solana

13:53

and then

13:53

also proceeded to kind of deploy

13:55

across other ecosystems like Robinhood Chain or

13:59

Base and so on

14:01

So yeah, that's the, that's the very high level

14:03

So, you know, these guys can do

14:06

you know

14:06

15 plus billion dollars in volume on like

14:08

five to 10 million dollars of liquidity

14:10

And the reason they're doing this is

14:12

you know, basically just, I won't say undercutting

14:14

but just providing way

14:15

way better pricing than what you could find

14:17

typically sitting in idle LPs on DEXs or other AMMs

14:22

So, yeah. How, how does it work

14:28

or maybe a, just general question about layer twos?

14:32

Because we've, we've seen layer twos with Ethereum

14:35

obviously, for like a while now

14:38

and I'm actually not

14:40

not too sure anymore about the

14:41

the roadmap. I think at

14:42

at some point it was more like a

14:44

layer two centric roadmap

14:45

and I think they kind of like tried

14:46

to move away

14:47

from that a little bit again

14:48

But I also don't really

14:49

I don't really know what

14:49

what's going on with Ethereum anymore too much

14:51

But

14:52

there are like definitely a lot of arguments to make that

14:55

maybe the layer two route

14:58

route wasn't like the best way to go

15:00

or that layer twos can be like parasitic and stuff

15:03

How, how, how do you feel about that?

15:04

And what do you think

15:05

it's going to be with Elysium and Hyper EVM?

15:09

Well, that's exactly the, the point, right?

15:10

As to like why

15:12

you know

15:12

we decided it was actually quite time for something like Elysium

15:18

because it

15:19

it really is like a middle finger to

15:20

like what L2s have traditionally been for Ethereum

15:23

right? So, Ethereum's kind of like monetary soundness comes from

15:30

economic activity happening on Ethereum itself

15:32

Ethereum mainnet, right? Like the L1

15:35

And For the first time ever

15:38

right, which is why again

15:39

like, we go back to that question of like

15:42

why another chain, why another L2, etc.

15:44

It would be very intellectually lazy to look at Lizeum as

15:47

again, just another L2

15:50

And I would agree if it wasn't built on Hyperliquid

15:52

if it was built on Ethereum

15:53

I'd be like, what the fuck are we doing here?

15:54

Like, it makes no sense

15:55

That would have never happened

15:57

So

15:59

Ethereum's monetary premium and soundness kind of

16:02

comes from economic activity happening on Ethereum mainnet

16:05

the L1, right?

16:08

When you build an L2 for Ethereum

16:11

and obviously, you know, help scale the network

16:13

because again, it has been very problematic

16:15

It was super problematic in 2020

16:16

2021

16:17

This was super needed. We needed fast

16:19

cheap transactions

16:20

Paying $1,000 for gas made absolutely no fucking sense

16:23

right?

16:26

What ended up happening was these L2s would

16:28

cannibalize the L1

16:30

And the economic activity was happening on these L2s

16:33

obviously, because it's cheap to trade

16:35

It's kind of like taxes

16:38

if that makes sense

16:39

in the real world

16:40

right?

16:40

Like

16:41

you're not going to have a lot of

16:42

economic growth in a place with like sky-high taxes

16:44

you know, just for the hell of it

16:46

Maybe Europe is a perfect example

16:48

right? Like not a lot of economic growth

16:49

super taxed, right?

16:51

So, you know, it makes sense

16:54

I was

16:54

recently listening to a podcast of like

16:56

Ireland being a perfect example

16:58

Super low taxes, you know

16:59

they had a problem in like the 70s

17:01

80s

17:01

They dropped taxes because they were about to

17:03

default

17:03

And like within the next year

17:05

after they expected maybe a few years after this would happen

17:08

but within the next year

17:09

they had absolutely explosive growth

17:11

right?

17:12

Super low unemployment, major capitalistic, kind of like, you know

17:16

things happening and so on

17:18

So this kind of same

17:20

thing ultimately happened to Ethereum

17:22

and high gas fees ended up kind of

17:24

acting like taxes in this regard

17:26

So people took their activity elsewhere

17:28

as you can imagine

17:30

And what would happen And is

17:31

you know, people started at this point

17:32

rightfully so

17:33

to doubt Ethereum's monetary soundness

17:35

because economic activity was no longer happening mostly on Ethereum

17:39

it was happening on the L2s

17:40

So this kind of cannibalized Ethereum essentially

17:44

And

17:45

you didn't have these L2s paying a lot

17:47

back in terms of like

17:49

I guess

17:50

the best way to think about this

17:51

is like paying back the crown

17:53

so to speak, right? Like these L2s are paying

17:56

you know, $700 to $1,000 a day

17:57

it seems like, to Ethereum for security

18:00

And that security is worth hundreds of billions of dollars

18:02

right? Like Ethereum is a several

18:04

you know, hundred billion dollar asset

18:07

It is the most decentralized network on the planet

18:09

probably outside of Bitcoin

18:11

So yeah

18:13

like it was very obvious that there was something wrong there

18:16

right?

18:17

So in this case

18:18

the same thing

18:20

You know

18:21

we flipped this on its head

18:23

because we're not settling to Ethereum

18:24

number one. We're settling to HyperVM

18:26

which is Hyper, the general purpose blockchain

18:29

And We're using Hype as gas token

18:32

So we're not using our own native token for gas

18:34

like that doesn't make sense

18:35

We're not even using our LST

18:36

K-Hype, for gas, which, you know

18:38

has

18:39

85% market share and it's the largest

18:41

application and product on Hyperliquid

18:45

You know, we're using Hype itself as gas

18:46

We're posting, you know, data to HyperEVM

18:51

rolling up to HyperEVM to be specific

18:54

And, you know

18:55

we're built on top of Hyperliquid from the

18:56

liquidity perspective as well. So like

18:58

when people want to access Hyperliquid from Elysium

19:02

Again, that's kind of the point

19:03

right? They're not accessing Binance or Coinbase or

19:05

whatever other exchange

19:06

They're going to Hyperliquid given the fully on-chain

19:08

nature of it and kind of the attachment

19:10

if you will, that Elysium has the Hyperliquid

19:13

The other side of this too is USDC

19:15

is a perfect example. Any USDC that's coming

19:17

to Elysium on day one

19:19

feeds Hyperliquid's assistance fund revenue because

19:22

of the AQA v2

19:24

agreement that they have in place with Coinbase

19:25

and Circle

19:26

So

19:27

when USDC is locked on HyperVM and bridged to Elysium one-to-one

19:32

that is basically paying Hyperliquid

19:34

So we have changed this whole value accretion or extraction

19:38

if you will, in Ethereum

19:39

We've turned this narrative on its head with Elysium

19:43

where pretty much the entire existence of Elysium

19:45

is value accretive to Hyperliquid

19:47

while Kinetic itself also does capture a massive

19:50

amount of value

19:51

We're not sitting there altruistically

19:53

you know, bleeding the Kinetic protocol out while paying the Piper

19:56

right? Which is, in this case, Hyperliquid

19:58

That doesn't make sense

19:59

We are

20:01

Completely aligned

20:03

in

20:03

beefing up Hyperliquid as an ecosystem from a

20:05

revenue profile perspective

20:07

And this comes from trading volume

20:09

from hedging flows coming

20:10

you know, from Elysium

20:11

This comes from, you know

20:13

Elysium being able to play a role in

20:15

helping tokens quote unquote graduate

20:17

to Hyperliquid through either a spot listing or

20:19

an eventual perp listing through HIP3 or Hyperliquid

20:22

validator perps

20:24

And then obviously the USDC component as well

20:26

where like that reserve yield pays

20:28

Hyperliquid for existing

20:30

So that is the super

20:35

I mean, I tried not to draw it out very long

20:37

but like that is

20:38

the much less condensed version of what Elysium is

20:42

the purpose it serves

20:43

and like how it

20:44

you know

20:45

flips the whole value extraction narrative on its

20:47

head

20:48

And we become an extremely

20:49

extremely valuable partner to Hyperliquid in this regard

20:52

at least in our eyes

20:53

because we're

20:54

sitting there providing it flow from

20:56

so many different angles and

20:57

using its asset and so on

20:59

Yeah

21:01

I think something that I

21:01

that I read as well that

21:03

I think you didn't mention just now is how the

21:05

the sequencer fee split works

21:09

Yeah, so that, that's another super unique component

21:12

right? So like all the other L2s that exist

21:17

you know

21:18

you could think of the operating businesses or

21:20

foundations as basically like taking all the money

21:22

right?

21:23

the way that we go about

21:25

our sequencer revenue is super robust and unique

21:28

So 50% of the sequencer revenue

21:31

goes to buying back KMTQ programmatically

21:36

you know, going back to the Hyperliquid component

21:39

Hyperliquid's core business is not the general purpose

21:42

blockchain, you know, HyperVM, right?

21:45

Hyperliquid's core business is perps

21:47

We are not competing with Hyperliquid's general

21:49

in, in, in core business

21:52

We are

21:53

Complementing the Hyperliquid offering by building a super

21:56

robust and super performant general purpose ecosystem

21:59

Hyperliquid's core business is perps

22:00

right? Like all the perp trading that happens

22:02

all the spot trading

22:03

hip four, hip three, you name it, you know

22:05

that's happening on Hyperliquid. That this is

22:06

this is the equivalent to Hyperliquid of Ethereum's gas fees

22:09

if that makes sense

22:10

That is what drives

22:11

you know, the whole quote unquote hyper sound money thesis

22:14

the economic premium and like kind of

22:17

you know

22:18

situation that Hyperliquid has right now is

22:20

totally and completely due to Hypercore

22:23

which is the exchange component

22:25

There is

22:25

and this is

22:26

what we argued when we announced Elysium is that Institutions

22:31

retail, you know, hedge funds, you name it, you know

22:33

whoever it is that holds hype

22:36

basically do not value hype today based on

22:38

HyperVM. They value it pretty much entirely on the exchange flows

22:42

those revenues, right?

22:43

So

22:43

this

22:44

also further created perfect grounds for Elysium to

22:46

exist because

22:47

we do not compete with that in the slightest

22:49

If anything, we actually feed that

22:51

right? We feed that by passing on more

22:53

flow to Hyperliquid

22:54

So

22:57

Yeah, like that's why we call ourselves the most

22:59

the, I can't even say the most

23:01

like the first and only value creative L2

23:04

So

23:05

going back to like how Kinetic itself accrues

23:07

value from this business is

23:10

you know

23:10

50% of the sequencer fees go to

23:12

programmatically purchasing and burning KNDQ on the open market

23:16

So, you know, half of those fees

23:18

The other

23:19

50% is split between 25% going to our

23:22

treasury

23:23

So this is to sustain operations

23:25

take care of integrations

23:26

and so on and so forth

23:27

And then the other 25%

23:29

is dedicated to builders totally and completely

23:32

So this is not some biased

23:35

builder program where like we sit there and hand out grants

23:39

like Sokyo has a really cool podcast

23:41

let's give them, you know, X amount of money

23:44

or someone built a cool application

23:45

let's give them blah

23:46

blah, blah, whatever. No

23:47

So

23:48

The

23:48

quarter of sequence of revenue that's set aside

23:50

for builders is based entirely on

23:53

block space consumption from their applications

23:56

So what the fuck does that actually mean?

23:59

Imagine like for a second

24:01

you know

24:01

you ran your own

24:02

exchange or somebody ran an exchange and you're

24:04

just like sitting there deploying assets and they're like

24:06

hey, we're going to take

24:07

you know

24:08

a quarter of the fees and give it

24:09

back to the people who've deployed assets here

24:10

That's like hyperliquid basically saying

24:12

you know

24:12

we're going to take a quarter of the

24:13

revenue from HIP3 and we're going to kick

24:15

it back to deployers because they are driving

24:16

volume on hyperliquid

24:18

This is that equivalent

24:19

right?

24:20

And you would do it pro rata

24:22

based on what amount of the trading volume or OI

24:26

for example, that, you know

24:28

these listings make up from these deployers

24:29

That's an example

24:31

So in this case

24:32

it's like

24:33

What percentage of

24:35

the

24:35

block space consumption are these applications taking up?

24:38

So for example, if Uniswap is like 25% of that

24:41

then they're going to have a quarter of

24:42

the

24:43

quarter of sequencer fees that we set aside

24:45

And so on and so forth

24:46

That can be the case for any application

24:48

right?

24:49

Obviously, this creates room for spam

24:51

So there's going to be criteria

24:52

that people cannot sit there and just like

24:54

sit there and spam transactions and

24:55

you know

24:56

print off of the quarter of sequencer fees

24:57

we set aside

24:58

But yeah, so that is also another very

25:01

very unique component of Elysium

25:03

is that

25:03

we give builders upside in the ecosystem's actual

25:06

growth because of the fact that

25:08

you know

25:09

they themselves could be

25:10

very much contributing to that factor

25:11

So yeah, it's a very interesting

25:14

you know, way to basically earn revenue

25:16

right? Like as a builder on Elysium

25:18

Yeah. It's pretty unique

25:20

I guess

25:20

right? Like other chains don't really do anything similar

25:25

Yeah, this literally does not exist anywhere else

25:29

It's also a good

25:30

very, very cool, interesting idea

25:32

I want to, I want to ask briefly about

25:36

the architecture. Why did you decide to

25:38

to go with, Arbitrum Orbit over other options?

25:43

Yeah, great question

25:46

so we, we've spoken with other providers

25:48

and ultimately, for those that do remember

25:51

you know, Hyperliquid was initially built

25:53

with this Arbitrum bridge

25:55

ultimately

25:56

and effectively before moving to its own consensus

25:59

mechanism was basically built on top of Arbitrum in some way

26:03

shape, or form

26:04

So, you know, when our team was assessing this

26:07

we ultimately realized that

26:09

Building on the Arbitrum platform itself

26:10

was going to be significantly easier to build

26:13

what we wanted to build

26:14

right? Which was the precompiles

26:17

and our own implementation of both the read

26:19

and write precompile using the Arbitrum stack

26:21

So no other stack

26:23

I mean

26:23

it's not like it couldn't be done elsewhere

26:25

It's just that if we were going to

26:26

you know, do this

26:27

like we should do it properly

26:29

We should do it with an ecosystem that

26:31

or a stack

26:32

more specifically that does allow us to compose

26:34

more seamlessly with HyperCore because

26:36

what we would not like is

26:38

to build

26:39

our own implementation of the precompiles that basically

26:42

just continue adding more and more latency

26:44

for trades

26:45

on behalf of users or like reading data

26:47

from HyperLiquid. So

26:48

we needed whatever was going to give us

26:49

as little latency as possible and as little

26:53

you know, difficulty building it as possible

26:55

So yeah

26:55

Arbitrum was like the clear winner there

26:59

I see

27:00

And can you maybe go a bit more into

27:05

Like, maybe at first applications that will be there at launch

27:08

like things that are

27:09

that you have already announced and partnered with

27:11

and what's going to be there

27:13

at the beginning, and then also more possible things

27:16

maybe even stuff that

27:17

doesn't exist yet in

27:19

in any way, any, anywhere on any chain or whatever

27:22

that is like, new and made possible by Elysium

27:26

Yeah, so, yeah, it's a pretty long list

27:29

geez, it's like 200 plus now

27:31

but I'll, I'll go off the top of like

27:32

whoa, what has been announced for sure

27:34

So, so, yeah, Uniswap, Aerodrome, a few prop AMMs as well

27:39

we've gotten a lot of interest there

27:42

0x, KyberSwap, LiFi, Wormhole, Metamask, Rabi

27:49

USDC is obviously going to be there

27:52

Derive will support Elysium deposits on V3

27:55

OpenSea we just announced today

27:59

yeah, and then a lot of the trading terminals

28:00

right? So like FOMO and PumpFun are

28:02

are like two of the biggest ones

28:05

X stocks, EQX for tokenized equities

28:09

yeah, so quite, quite a lot ultimately

28:10

I mean

28:11

there's going to be a lot of stuff

28:11

And then a lot of like

28:12

native applications as well. So

28:14

people are building a lot of launchpads

28:16

their own, NFT marketplaces or trading terminals

28:20

you know, our own trading sub-brand

28:22

so

28:22

Markets.xyz will support Elysium Spot Trading from day one as well

28:26

which is going to be awesome

28:29

infrastructurally, there's like Alchemy, Quicknode, Chainstack, Enigma

28:34

Conduit themselves, of course, Codex, which is

28:36

defined for those that know

28:38

Privy is also integrating Pimlico

28:43

you know, Allium

28:44

which is another big one from on the

28:45

data side

28:46

So yeah, like a lot

28:48

Like builders should have pretty much everything that they need

28:51

for success, like, you know, immediately

28:56

And what about like new

28:57

primitives that could be created through this

29:00

like, or I

29:02

I don't even know if it would make

29:03

sense for you to

29:04

to say, talk about something like this

29:06

or if that's something that you're like focused on

29:08

but, I guess that's what I'm curious about

29:11

at first when there's like a new chain

29:13

or it's like something new is possible

29:14

and the, the way you explain it so far

29:16

I think the

29:17

you made a good case for why the chain should exist

29:20

but maybe, maybe you have like

29:22

ideas or like are

29:23

are in contact with people or like want to push

29:26

give people ideas or whatever of what

29:28

what can be done with this

29:30

Yeah

29:31

Yeah, a big one that I

29:33

I was talking about recently

29:34

like I, I, this is maybe selfish

29:37

but like I'd love for people to build

29:38

like a really fun game

29:40

fully on-chain on Elysium and like

29:43

There is this game I played

29:45

a while back

29:46

I forgot what it's called

29:47

DeFi Land on, on Solana

29:49

Like, wow, wow back. This is like Alameda era

29:52

Cause like, was it, was it like a farmer thing

29:55

kind of? Yeah, yeah, yeah

29:56

Yeah, I remember that

29:58

I played that too

29:59

Yeah, that was a while ago

30:02

Yeah, yeah. Selfishly, I

30:04

I would love for somebody to build like

30:05

a really cool experience where

30:08

you know

30:08

you can walk over to

30:10

your farm and like that be like

30:12

again, like whatever yields you're getting on Elysium and

30:17

you know

30:17

like walk into the Coliseum and trade perps on Hyperliquid

30:20

you know? So like

30:21

I would love for somebody to do that

30:22

but again, that's just, you know, more selfish

30:25

and then, you know

30:27

Going on that point and talking about actually

30:29

more interesting DeFi primitives outside of like consumer

30:32

fully on-chain options order book would be fucking incredible

30:35

right? Like Elysium is the perfect place to

30:37

do that

30:38

The protocol itself can be the counterparty and hedge with perps

30:40

for example

30:42

That's a perfect example

30:45

You know

30:45

people can replicate hyperliquid liquidity

30:47

or hyperliquid pricing and do fully on-chain

30:50

versions of perps that basically settle to hyperliquid

30:52

on Elysium. That would be awesome

30:56

Tokenized perps, which are going to be cool

30:58

like leverage tokens

30:59

essentially. So BounceTech is bringing those over

31:01

That's going to be really fun

31:03

They need the pre-compiles to be live

31:04

which will be like

31:05

a few weeks after mainnet

31:07

But

31:07

that's an example. So that's going to be

31:08

stuff like Bitcoin 3X

31:11

like FTX. Yeah, exactly

31:13

Exactly, exactly

31:14

Yeah, like imagine like Bitcoin 3X

31:17

you know, paired against, you know

31:19

a meme coin. Like this was tried on HyperVM and again

31:22

HyperVM kind of broke when this happened because

31:24

like people were super excited about it and

31:26

like a couple thousand people using the chain

31:27

like went to like $30 swaps for gas

31:32

So that was one example

31:33

The other day, like, you know

31:34

during the Elon and Druckenmiller post

31:36

like HyperVM swapped for like $100

31:38

which is obscene

31:40

So yeah, so seeing this type of activity

31:42

like all the really cool stuff that you can

31:44

you know

31:44

do by composing with Hyperliquid's liquidity

31:46

and order books

31:48

on a general purpose ecosystem is like my dream come true

31:50

right?

31:51

So You know, in 2024 when HyperEVM was announced

31:54

like this is what excited us about HyperLiquid

31:56

right? It's like you have

31:58

you could, we could finally end the monopoly

32:01

if you will, of Binance King making their L2

32:04

but it being totally two separate environments

32:06

Binance UKYC, BSC is the playground

32:09

or Coinbase and base relationship where

32:11

Coinbase UKYC and base is the playground

32:13

And, you know, there's so

32:14

so many more examples of this

32:16

And this was supposed to end

32:18

you know, with HyperEVM, and that

32:19

that just hasn't been the case

32:20

but Elysium will be

32:22

you know, what, what ushers in this new era

32:24

we believe

32:26

And people are very excited about that vision

32:27

which, you know, is extremely humbling and

32:29

and we're very grateful for

32:31

So, yeah, finally, you know

32:34

HyperLiquid would basically represent

32:36

the environment where there's a ton of liquidity

32:37

and you do all of your kind of derivatives trading

32:40

and then everything else should be happening on Elysium

32:42

Like, this is the goal

32:45

So do you think this could

32:47

increase the, the spot volumes overall?

32:50

Because I think what many people are not so aware of

32:52

or at least I wasn't really aware of before I

32:54

I looked into stuff a bit before this episode

32:57

that, we always hear about

32:59

like

32:59

the derivatives volume of Hyperliquid versus other

33:02

centralized exchanges or other exchanges in general

33:05

and obviously they're taking a lot of

33:07

market share there

33:08

But when it comes to spot volumes

33:10

even though, like, unit, I, I think unit's great

33:12

you know, like no KYC, spot trading, and whatever, but

33:15

the volume isn't really up to

33:17

to anything. Like, it's

33:18

as we saw now with the Binance hack

33:20

Binance has, like, 130 billion or 120 billion assets under management

33:24

even though Hyperliquid already kind of

33:26

like, caught up a little bit to their purpose volume

33:28

but people just use it as

33:29

like, their spot bank or

33:31

like, just to spot trade kind of everything

33:34

and that is kind of what is still missing from the

33:36

the on-chain, the Hyperliquid ecosystem

33:40

Yeah, exactly. So with that said

33:45

so for example

33:46

Bitcoin on hyperliquid is apparently the most

33:49

liquid form of Bitcoin trading on-chain

33:52

but it's completely unutilized relative to what it should be

33:55

right? Like hyperliquid

33:56

last month made 15-month lows against Binance spot volume

34:00

right? So

34:02

It's just

34:02

sad to me that that's not being used

34:04

anywhere near as much as it should

34:06

and Elysium is a perfect environment where that

34:08

can be the case. So

34:09

the really cool part about being built on

34:11

top of Hyperliquid that I probably should have

34:12

mentioned earlier for listeners

34:15

because I know like

34:16

you know

34:17

it's probably easier to cram a lot of

34:18

this in in a shorter period of time

34:20

for the sake of attention spans

34:22

myself included, right

34:24

is that all the assets that are deployed on Hyperliquid today

34:27

whether it's a spot token like KNDQ

34:29

for example, or spot majors that unit has deployed

34:33

so BTC, ETH, SOL, PUMP, XPL

34:38

you name it, right, like literally anything

34:41

we inherit at Elysium

34:42

So as long as they are linked between HyperCore and HyperVM

34:45

which, you know

34:46

you can do as a deployer of these assets

34:48

then they have a

34:50

canonical deployment on Elysium already

34:52

So on Elysium day one

34:54

you'll have Bitcoin that's deployed by unit

34:56

You'll have ETH that's deployed by unit

34:57

You'll have SOL that's deployed by unit

34:58

and so on

34:59

Any of these tokens. So

35:01

There can be an environment where

35:03

people can trade these assets in an environment

35:05

they're a lot more used to trading them on

35:08

You know

35:09

rather than like doing it on a centralized

35:10

exchange or rather than doing it on Hyperliquid directly

35:13

they could do it on Elysium

35:14

And

35:15

if

35:16

a prop AMM

35:16

or some other liquidity provider is facing this

35:18

end user who's swapping against BTC liquidity

35:21

why wouldn't they be hedging it on Hyperliquid?

35:23

Like this is, yeah

35:25

this is the perfect example

35:26

So I can't wait

35:27

you know, like, you know

35:28

we go live publicly on Monday next week

35:32

So I can't wait to look back

35:34

you know, three months after the pre-compiles go live

35:36

which is a few weeks after Mainnet

35:38

and see like how much volume

35:40

came from Elysium

35:42

Like how much Hyperliquid volume came from Elysium

35:44

I think this is going to be a

35:44

really interesting chart to watch

35:48

And yeah

35:48

we're going to nerd out very heavily

35:50

over watching that happen. So yeah

35:52

the point is, Yeah, we're, we're, we're quite excited, right?

35:56

Elysium is, is kind of our

35:58

our life's work, if you will, at Kinetic

36:00

And, you know, it's, it's the

36:02

it's the biggest thing we've ever undertaken

36:06

so yeah, I mean, what I, what I've talked about for

36:10

I think, a year and a half now

36:11

right, is like, you know

36:13

Kinetic is just as much a liquid staking

36:15

protocol now as like Hyperliquid is just a PerpX

36:17

right? Like Hyperliquid is so much more than

36:18

that

36:19

And now Kinetic is so much more than that

36:21

right? Like Hyperliquid with

36:23

with, with this platform, you know

36:25

Perps were its wedge into bringing everything else

36:28

you know, over, right?

36:30

and Perps are where it's dominated

36:32

But now the general purpose component is where

36:34

Kinetic can help it

36:35

dominate outside of just Perps

36:37

so the same with us

36:38

right? Like K-Hype and our liquid staking offering

36:40

was our wedge. And

36:41

and now, you know

36:43

with the general purpose ecosystem opportunity at hand

36:45

you know, we can help usher in this

36:47

again, this new era for Hyperliquid

36:48

So this is what drives the shit out of us on

36:51

on this day in

36:51

day out

36:54

Is there a scenario

36:56

I don't know if it makes too much

36:57

sense with everything that you've said so far

36:59

but like, because ETH has like many different layer twos

37:02

and then they kind of cause all of

37:04

this liquidity fragmentation because everything is kind of like siloed off

37:09

that would it even make sense to have

37:10

like

37:11

someone else do a

37:13

hyper EVM layer two as well in like

37:16

as a competitor to you?

37:17

Would they even be like in a

37:19

is anyone else even like in a position

37:21

where it would make sense for them to do that

37:22

or would it make sense to do

37:23

as a whole in addition to the ecosystem?

37:27

I, I, so I don't see where that would make sense

37:29

right? Like people already had enough trouble thinking of like

37:31

why the fuck kinetic is doing Elysium?

37:33

Like an L2 for hyper

37:34

like, oh, why does

37:35

why does hyperlink need an L2?

37:38

so like, if there was another one

37:39

I

37:40

I don't know

37:40

how people would feel about that

37:41

I don't particularly think it would be taken too positively

37:44

but, but yeah

37:44

the other side of it too is that the

37:46

the kinetic positioning makes this super unique

37:48

right? We're already the biggest application on hyperliquid

37:52

More than half of all hyperliquid DeFi flow flows through KHype

37:55

which is our asset

37:58

You know

37:58

we have played such a big role in

37:59

building the hyperliquid ecosystem ourselves by hand

38:02

right? Bringing over options protocols

38:04

bringing over, you know

38:05

tons and tons of money market liquidity and tons of usage

38:09

unlocking a lot of the hype that would

38:10

otherwise have just sat there stale on hypercore

38:14

you know, into like a DeFi environment

38:16

right? Like

38:17

I don't see why anybody would

38:20

think it's like a

38:21

smart decision from a business perspective to do

38:23

but are we always open and welcome to competition?

38:26

Absolutely

38:27

right? Like

38:27

we do this all the time

38:29

in the LST space. So if somebody wants to do it

38:31

I do wish them the best of luck

38:32

But yeah

38:34

I don't particularly see

38:36

where there would be benefits for hyperliquid in

38:37

that regard

38:40

You know, there would just be more liquidity fragmentation and whatnot

38:43

whereas like on HyperVM

38:44

there's nowhere near as much liquidity as there

38:46

should be

38:47

Elysium kind of ends up

38:48

being this environment where applications are extremely excited to deploy

38:52

users are extremely excited to trade on

38:55

So like naturally

38:55

there should be quite a lot of liquidity

38:58

But yeah, I mean, again, like I said

38:59

I could be totally wrong and like

39:01

this may not be an accurate take and

39:02

somebody's like maybe plotting it as we speak

39:04

I don't know, right? But yeah

39:07

otherwise I don't particularly see the need

39:09

I mean, you know

39:10

we gave

39:11

HyperVM like a long time to kind of

39:13

scale up to where

39:15

you know

39:15

ourselves and others would have really liked it

39:17

And that's not been the case

39:18

which is totally fine

39:20

But Elysium now comes in and solves this

39:21

and I don't particularly believe like others

39:24

at the moment at least

39:25

are interested in doing it

39:27

But yeah, again, like I said

39:29

am I opposed to it?

39:30

Absolutely not. Like if somebody wants to come join the fun

39:33

then please do

39:36

Do, do you have any

39:37

I think last time we talked

39:38

you mentioned that the

39:39

the Hyperliquid team is very hands-off when

39:42

when it comes to like any

39:43

any builders and, and whatever

39:45

They're like kind of just doing their own

39:46

thing and providing the

39:48

the, infrastructure, I guess, and

39:50

and then everyone is kind of for

39:51

for themselves when building on top of that

39:55

I guess it

39:55

is

39:56

the same when it comes to building Elysium?

39:59

For sure. I mean

40:00

yeah, like, I don't, I

40:03

I don't think

40:03

that they are going to like stop what they're doing for

40:07

for anything, and

40:07

and Elysium is obviously included there

40:09

I think what they're doing is obviously extremely important

40:14

and again, there's like, there's a really

40:16

so Hyperliquid has a little over two million users now

40:18

right? Like in terms of actual accounts

40:20

like this doesn't count

40:21

you know, somebody who may have ten or twenty accounts

40:23

right? But like, let's just call it

40:25

you know, users

40:27

You know, on chain

40:28

there's probably tens and tens of millions of users

40:30

you know

40:31

spread across like Solana and Base and

40:33

obviously now newly Robinhood chain

40:36

Like, these guys need a place as well

40:38

right? So like

40:40

the really cool part about our relationship with

40:42

Hyperliquid is like Hyperliquid is doing

40:43

its thing and like we're doing our thing

40:45

And

40:46

we don't need to bug Hyperliquid about like

40:49

doing things for us on a daily basis or

40:51

you know, needing foundation support or whatever

40:54

That's what makes this so

40:55

so unique. And I've talked about this for

40:57

a very long time is that Hyperliquid is an extremely

41:00

extremely Darwinian ecosystem. It is

41:03

survival of the fittest

41:04

If you build a product that people don't care about

41:06

you're going to die

41:07

If you build a product that people care about

41:08

you're going to win. It's that simple

41:10

It's super, super, super simple

41:12

Whereas in most, if not all their ecosystems

41:16

if you're not getting foundation support

41:18

Or somebody, you know, at the quote unquote top

41:21

like pushing you amongst their

41:23

their network and people and

41:24

please use this and don't use that and whatever

41:26

Like, you know, it's kind of problematic

41:29

right? Like

41:30

people don't find it worth building another ecosystems

41:32

where that's not the case

41:34

So on Hyperlink, that's not the case

41:35

right? Like it's like you have a bunch

41:36

of rabid users that are typically Extremely well capitalized

41:40

ready to put their money where their mouth is

41:42

and like this, you know, it's the perfect environment for very

41:46

very serious builders who take product quality to heart

41:50

and I want Elysium to be an extension

41:52

of that

41:52

This is what our team is building for

41:55

You know, it should be where builders

41:56

you know

41:57

come to throw down

41:58

and like throw everything they have at building

42:00

the best possible product

42:01

It's where like users come to dream again

42:03

about what DeFi can be and

42:04

you know, having fun with experimental protocols

42:07

You know, like this is what Elysium should be

42:09

And yeah, like so the Hyperliquid team

42:12

you know

42:13

we stay out of their way with building

42:14

things on Hypercore. We try not to be

42:16

annoying

42:17

We don't talk super often

42:18

but like when we do talk

42:19

it's like if we have a question on

42:20

documentation or if they talk to us

42:22

it's kind of the same thing

42:23

Hey, what does this do?

42:24

What does that do?

42:25

That's that, right? Otherwise

42:27

I would say we have a very good

42:28

relationship and like We started their way

42:30

they started our way

42:31

and like, it's all good, right?

42:33

But again, that's what it should be

42:34

That's what an ecosystem

42:36

that like goes and develops itself should look like

42:38

because everywhere else

42:40

where there's like key man risk at the

42:41

foundation is just extremely bearish

42:45

So yeah

42:45

that's why

42:46

I think we're starting to see a lot

42:47

of really crazy excitement about Elysium

42:49

which is, again, very humbling

42:52

It's just because of the approach here

42:53

right? Like people naturally love hyperliquid

42:55

and

42:56

hopefully they love how we're going about building

42:58

this ecosystem

43:00

And yeah, it

43:02

I think it resonates quite a lot with people

43:05

not just traders, but like developers alike as well

43:07

So yeah, that's my thoughts on it

43:11

It sounds very symbiotic

43:14

I would say so

43:15

and it's just naturally that

43:16

right? It's not like there was some agreement

43:18

between us and Hyper

43:18

it's like, hey, like, you know

43:21

let's do this. Let's do this

43:23

and like, you just let us do this

43:24

and while you guys do that

43:25

Like, no, like, it is naturally symbiotic

43:28

We came and did this

43:29

They found out the exact same time everyone

43:31

else in the public found out that we're doing Elysium

43:34

right? Like, there was no coordination on this in advance

43:36

and that's how it should be

43:37

right? So, no

43:40

Can you walk us through this process a

43:42

bit?

43:43

Because I find that interesting

43:44

I didn't, when you announced it

43:47

I didn't really know what to think of Elysium

43:50

like what it's supposed to be

43:51

and then it got a bit more clear

43:53

over time. But

43:54

now recently you also announced the

43:56

integrations with FOMO and PumpFun at the start

43:58

so it's also, I guess it was kind of obvious

44:00

but I didn't

44:01

I kind of thought about it a bit

44:02

more like this

44:04

You know, it's hyperliquid L2

44:05

It's like more about like perps and

44:07

and financialized stuff, but it's also going to be

44:10

a meme coin chain

44:13

I guess, or like a, a chain where meme coins

44:15

shit coins or whatever are going to happen

44:17

because I guess that's just like part of

44:19

of crypto and everything that is

44:21

that is going to happen

44:22

But, what I find interesting is the

44:24

the part where they are

44:27

like coins can

44:29

more easily

44:30

get

44:31

into the hyperliquid spot listings and like HLP3

44:34

perps. Can you explain that a bit more?

44:37

Yeah

44:37

so

44:38

that's the cool part about being built on top of hyperliquid

44:41

which is that effectively

44:42

given our experience on spot deployments on

44:45

on hyperliquid and obviously the

44:46

the, the perp side as well

44:47

given we operated a

44:48

a HIP3 offering, you know

44:51

we can essentially help quote unquote Projects graduate

44:55

if you will

44:56

instead of like graduating to quote unquote

44:58

the bonding curve on like a

45:01

you know, some launchpad in whatever ecosystem you want

45:04

you know

45:05

the graduation curve on Hyperliquid could be

45:08

you launch a token on Elysium and you

45:09

bootstrap liquidity and attention and trading volume on Elysium

45:13

like an environment where the on-chain traders

45:16

you know, love to trade, right?

45:17

Not just because it's Elysium

45:18

but they like trading in more of an

45:19

AMM format rather than a club

45:21

right?

45:22

It's just, I think it's very obvious

45:23

like more sophisticated traders use clubs and less

45:25

sophisticated traders use AMMs

45:27

It's very, very simple dynamic

45:30

So you bootstrap on Elysium

45:32

and we help you quote unquote graduate the Hypercore spot

45:35

help you with purchasing the ticker

45:37

deploying that asset

45:38

And if it becomes really big

45:39

Hyperliquid could just list it as a perp

45:41

or you can work with a hip three

45:42

deployer of your choice to list a perp

45:44

for you. Essentially. So then Elysium doesn't just be Yeah

45:51

or it doesn't just become

45:52

I should say

45:53

an extension of Hyperliquid on operating a general purpose gap or

45:58

you know, adding more, you know

46:01

liquidity to Hyperliquid perps or trading volume to

46:03

Hyperliquid perps. It's doing all that plus

46:06

acting as this native TGE platform

46:08

for Hyperliquid where tokens have this kind of

46:12

you know, if you're trading, if you're TGE-ing on Robinhood chain

46:16

like your ultimate goal is to list on Robinhood

46:18

right?

46:19

If you're TGE-ing on BNB

46:20

like your ultimate goal is listing on Binance

46:23

If you're TGE-ing on Base

46:24

your ultimate goal is listing on Coinbase

46:25

But what about on Hyperliquid

46:28

right?

46:29

Spot listings don't get any love

46:32

You know, if you TGE on Elysium

46:35

your ultimate goal should be Hyperliquid perp

46:37

right? Or maybe even a Hyperliquid spot listing

46:39

And we can maybe

46:41

perhaps

46:42

Usher in the era of like hyperliquid spot

46:44

tokens being like a super bullish catalyst for tokens that TGE

46:48

right? Whether they're from Elysium or wherever the hell

46:51

right? So, so yeah, that's, that's the thinking in short

46:53

like with what you just mentioned

46:55

which, you know, we believe is like a huge

46:56

huge, huge, you know, selling point for Elysium and

47:00

and what has made developers and

47:02

you know, like you said, shitcoiners or whatever alike

47:05

you know, very, very excited about

47:07

you know, deploying tokens on Elysium

47:09

right? Because you have that path

47:10

directly

47:11

to hyperliquid without any of the bureaucracy

47:14

of like

47:14

talking with a centralized exchange team and

47:16

all the bullshit that comes with that

47:17

So, yeah. How, how, how expensive is it currently to like

47:22

create a spot listing?

47:25

Good question. The, the price changes with hype price

47:28

but it's

47:28

at minimum 500 hype and that can

47:31

always increase if like the auction becomes very competitive

47:34

So, what's that like a little bit over $40,000 today

47:37

roughly?

47:38

I see

47:40

But it does sound like a way healthier path

47:41

kind of

47:42

because I guess since most

47:44

meme coin activity is still on Solana

47:47

I think like a huge

47:48

problem nowadays is probably that it's just like

47:50

this

47:52

Everyone always wants like a runner

47:53

Everyone always wants like this one coin that

47:55

goes really high and then that's listed everywhere and whatever

47:57

and it becomes like this big thing

47:59

But we haven't had that in

48:01

quite a while because it's

48:03

all just like PVP-ing inside of like the

48:06

before it ever

48:07

graduates the launchpad and then even if it does

48:10

you need to like

48:12

as you said, like talk to it

48:13

to Binance team or whatever

48:15

give them

48:16

some money to like get the listing and

48:17

all of that. And doing it on Hyperliquid

48:20

like on Elysium and then through Hyperliquid spot listing and whatever

48:24

seems like a way healthier path

48:26

to get a token to reach a higher market cap

48:31

Yeah, I, it's an, it's a perfect example of like what

48:34

you know, tokens can find, you know, new catalysts from

48:37

Like, hey, like, you know, we

48:38

we listed on hyperliquid spot or

48:40

you know, we got a hyperliquid perp

48:41

whether through HIP3 or like the eventual kind

48:43

of final boss being

48:44

you know, we got a hyperliquid validator operated perp

48:46

which means like your token should be kicking ass

48:48

right?

48:49

So, yeah, like you said, it's very interesting

48:51

It eats into, like my goal and

48:56

you know, when Magnus, Justin, and I were first firm

48:59

forming up Kinetic back then is like

49:01

how do we

49:02

Throw a huge wrench

49:03

into like the existing centralized exchange listing flow

49:06

right?

49:07

And

49:07

this is what was supposed to happen

49:09

with Hyperliquid over the last two years and

49:10

has not happened

49:12

So

49:12

Elysium is our chance to do that and

49:14

usher that era in ourselves with this new product

49:17

So yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more

49:20

That's exactly what should be disrupted

49:22

right? Like giving several percent to

49:24

like any exchange

49:26

and then going through this massively long and arduous

49:29

you know, like listing process

49:32

Hypercore should be like where

49:33

you know, all these assets are trading

49:35

And there's even another cool side of it

49:37

like through HIP2

49:38

where you can actually provide liquidity as well

49:42

That's like permanently locked

49:43

essentially, like in the order book

49:45

which is a very underutilized feature

49:47

So, yeah, I mean

49:48

I can't even explain

49:50

how interesting this all is

49:51

And HIP2 also acts as like an AMM

49:55

if you will, in the order book

49:57

so to speak

49:57

and it guarantees a 30 basis point spread

49:59

every three seconds

50:00

So, like, this is very, very underutilized technology, and like Elysium

50:04

in my view, like helps usher that in

50:06

So, yeah

50:09

I think it's definitely a very

50:10

good spot to fill because I feel like

50:12

Hyperliquid with all that it does well

50:15

I mean

50:15

we talked about that there's definitely improvement on the spot side

50:18

but I think also something that

50:20

Hyperliquid is lacking sometimes versus other exchanges is

50:22

like speed of like listing stuff

50:25

or I guess They do kind of like list stuff fast

50:28

but like the listing offering isn't as extensive

50:30

as like on Binance or Bybit or whatever because they don't

50:35

just like list everything

50:36

but this is like an easier way to

50:39

to do that and to have like more listings available

50:44

Yeah, exactly. And like, it, again, that's another kind of

50:48

I, I can't even say intangible

50:49

but that's another component of

50:51

Elysium being value creative to Hyperliquid is

50:54

you know, even if it brings it more listings

50:56

right, whether it's like spot or perp

50:58

you know

50:58

we would be

50:59

directly contributing to

51:01

Hyperliquid making more money and hence buying more

51:03

hype off the open market and

51:06

it's so unique

51:07

right? Like we have this situation where like

51:10

both CandyQ and Hype see tremendous upside in different ways

51:15

like from different forms of

51:17

you know, activity that come from Elysium

51:19

And it's, it's just, you know

51:21

it's a dream come true really

51:22

I think

51:23

So, yeah, we're, we're super stoked

51:26

Yeah, I think, I

51:28

I kind of like talked about everything that

51:30

I wanted to talk about now

51:31

and I definitely have a way better picture

51:33

of what Elysium is after

51:34

after this, conversation

51:38

is there anything you think we've missed so

51:39

far? Anything you still

51:41

would, would like to talk about?

51:43

No, I think that's pretty much it

51:44

I mean, you, you asked some really great questions

51:47

I think, was able to talk a lot about

51:50

like, what Elysium is and kind of give people a picture

51:54

that they may not have had before

51:57

so, yeah, no, I

51:58

I thank you a lot for having me on and

51:59

and having this conversation because

52:01

again, I think, like, that's going to be the big

52:03

you know, thing for us to tackle is

52:05

like, you know, why another L2, why another

52:07

why another chain?

52:08

And, like, I hope this gives you specifically already

52:11

you know, kind of those reasons

52:13

And then through this podcast

52:15

hopefully, you know, gives everyone who listens kind of

52:17

again

52:18

that context as to why yet another chain

52:22

and I still remain

52:22

you know, very, very, you know

52:24

bearish on what the typical L2 setup looks like

52:27

Hence, why we'll never be that and why

52:30

you know, this

52:30

this has

52:31

been crafted in such a unique way to

52:33

basically provide direct value to the whole

52:35

quote unquote, host chain

52:37

And like you said earlier

52:38

be extremely symbiotic. So

52:40

as long as that's the case

52:41

then we're accomplishing our mission and

52:43

and

52:43

You know, that's, that's what, you know, wakes us up and

52:46

you know, keeps us going every day

52:47

so

52:49

yeah. And I think this

52:50

this is very cool because I think last time

52:53

I don't remember if I said it during

52:54

the episode or after

52:55

but

52:56

I remember that I thought it was a very technical talk

52:59

which I found kind of

53:00

cool and interesting because

53:02

that is something that was like

53:04

way more of a thing years ago

53:06

I guess, or like we

53:07

we also went a bit over like what

53:09

what happened a couple of years ago with like all the

53:11

how the technology developed and everything

53:13

And

53:13

I find it kind of cool to come

53:15

back to that sometimes with

53:17

with stuff like Elysium

53:18

with like, okay, there is still like tech

53:19

there is still like stuff that is interesting because I

53:22

I used to be like into all of the

53:23

the Ethereum, the layer two and the

53:26

the technology and how all of that worked

53:27

and then over time as

53:29

it just kind of became less and less

53:30

interesting

53:31

But I think This

53:34

these kind of things are kind of needed

53:35

to push the space forward

53:37

Like we need new stuff to

53:39

like the

53:40

the cycle doesn't just like come and then

53:41

like stuff suddenly appears and then prices go up

53:45

but we need innovation and like people trying things and

53:48

and new things being done for

53:51

to have a proper new cycle

53:53

So like

53:53

maybe onboard some new people or get like

53:55

other people to come back and find interest

53:57

again and see that there's like

53:59

still stuff going on and new possibilities that

54:01

they can utilize. Yeah

54:03

Exactly

54:04

Exactly. And like what we're noticing is

54:06

a lot of like

54:07

what we would consider DeFi OGs are getting

54:09

very excited about this. And

54:11

that's very, that's very encouraging, right?

54:14

Like, Again

54:15

like what Hyperliquid's done here has

54:17

set the stage for somebody to come and

54:18

create an ecosystem on top of that liquidity

54:22

And if that's the case

54:23

then Hyperliquid gets a moat that no other Perpetex

54:26

like Lighter or Variational or whatever the fuck

54:29

can compete with, right? Because, you know

54:31

you can compete on liquidity

54:32

you can compete on pricing

54:33

you can compete on

54:35

on the tech

54:35

but you can't compete with an ecosystem that's

54:37

like sitting there permanently using your liquidity

54:39

right? So

54:41

yeah, I mean, it's, it's unprecedented is, is the reality

54:48

Yeah, that's a

54:48

that's a great way to end this conversation

54:51

So thank you very much for coming on once again

54:56

No, thank you for the time

54:57

super glad to have done this again and

54:59

maybe we run back a part three in

55:01

the future after Elysium's live at some point

55:05

And maybe, Illusion is

55:06

the biggest chain in 2027 and ushering in the new

55:10

new cycle hype at a thousand dollars and

55:12

we will find each other again

55:14

Yeah, yeah

55:15

we gotta get back to work to make that happen

55:17

so, yeah